François Chidaine: August 2008 at La Cave Insolite, Montlouis

In between late minute Christmas shopping I have managed to speak to François Audebert (Bourgueil) and to François Chidaine about Interloire's AGM in Nantes on Tuesday. Neither conversation was exactly festive – instead depressing with a palpable sense of the crisis and a growing schism between producers and the négoce. Of course having spoken to just two producers their views may not be fully representative but I suspect that their views would be echoed by a substantial number of Loire producers.
(Over the next few days I hope to add views from more producers and also from the négoce. I also, of course, welcome comments.)

François Audebert
I started by asking François what had happened at the AGM.

François A: Not a great deal. It was accepted with regret that Bourgueil would leaving Interloire at the end of 2010. The atmosphere are meeting was all rather morose. The négoce pushed through the single rate of cotisation (subscription) to Interloire, which will be 4€ per hectolitre. Previously there had been 24 different levels with appellations fixing the amount. 24 was clearly too much but I would have preferred three different levels.

Jim: Do you think there will be a chance a reaching an accommodation during 2010 that will allow Bourgueil to remain within Interloire?

François A: I think it will very difficult. There appears to be incomprehension of our position and concerns by the négoce and I'm not sure that it is possible to have meaningful discussions anymore. Bourgueil has voted to increase its cotisation by adding 3.50€ to the current rate of 1.70€ a hectolitre – a total of 5.20€. This increase will be used for our public relations activities. A number of other appellations, such as Chinon and Vouvray, have voted an increase to their cotisations with the extra going to the syndicat.

We then discussed the proposal to make the Salon des Vins de Loire biannual, which is a consequence of reducing Interloire's budget for the Salon. Although the Salon is run by Expo-Park, Angers, Interloire provides an important part of the budget.

François A: The Salon is very important for the producers. The proposal to reduce the budget and hold the Salon every two years is a direct attack by the négoce on us. The Salon is crucial for us both to meet international buyers but also people from our home market – wholesalers, agents, cavistes, restaurateurs etc. Many people come to the Salon to taste the latest vintage, so it needs to be held every year – not every two years.

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François Chidaine
We talked about the AGM but also about the conflict between the producers and the négociants.

Francois C: Our level of cotisation has been cut from 5.5€ per hectolitre down to 4€. The négociants do not believe in promoting appellations. They just want to promote La Loire and to concentrate on selling low priced wine. Because of much of the former Loire négociants have been bought up by the big groups, there is no longer competition. The négociants are concerned with their margins. This means that producers supplying the négoce cannot survive commercially and some are now giving up.

Producers in Touraine do not agree with this approach – our objectives are not the same. We are in a different position in Touraine as we are not bound to the négociants as in the case for producers in Anjou and in Muscadet. Producers in Touraine are very attached to their appellations. Increasingly we will see funds from vignerons being transferred to their syndicats. The relationship between the producers and the négoce is broken.

Jim: Do you think that the relationship can be repaired?

François C: We will see but things may well have gone too far – there is a lot of bitterness. It is very unfortunate because in the current crisis we should all be working together. But for the producers to do nothing in the current situation is not an option. We have to react – we have to save viticulture for the next generation.

(NB: Other views to come.)

A glass and bunch of grapes on a roundabout between Saint-Nicolas and Bourgueil

Following François Audebert's comment on my post reporting the vote by the Bourgueil producers to leave Interloire, I spoke to François this afternoon. He is both vice-president of the Bourgueil appellation and a delegate to Interloire.

It was soon clear that my flippant comment about a re-run of Clochemerle was precisely that and that the malaise and sense of grievance is strong and not confined just to the appellation of Bourgueil. At the heart of the dispute is the age-old and often prickly relationship between the négoce and the growers, which here is demonstrated by a belief that greater emphasis should be placed on promoting the appellations. The need to create an image of the Loire in export markets is recognised but that the emphasis has swung too far to La Loire and it is time to return to promoting the appellations.

François Audebert: For the last two years the promotional approach of Interloire has been driven by the négoce with an emphasis on La Loire and on selling red Loire wine at the cheapest possible price. The appellations have not been valued. This is a terrible mistake as in the world market it is our appellations – our terroir and history that is our only defence against wines from other parts of the world that can be produced more cheaply because their labour costs are lower.

It isn't just Bourgueil that has become very disenchanted with Interloire's approach. There are similar strong feelings in Vouvray and, last night in a vote at Saint-Nicolas-de-Bourgueil over whether to withdraw from Interloire, the vote was 101 to stay in with 91 to pull out.
(Jim: so just over 45% wanted to withdraw. At the vote in Bourgueil it had been 92% to pull out.)

François Audebert: We haven't taken any pleasure in this vote to pull out. It is a cry of despair – an extreme measure. I recognise that it is not possible for Bourgueil to promote its appellation by itself but we cannot continue like this – the appellations have been forgotten. Other Loire appellations are equally discontent but their protests are taking different forms.

Jim: Do you think you will be allowed to leave by the French government, who are currently looking to create fewer, larger and more powerful Interprofessions?

François Audebert: We haven't yet had a reaction from the French Ministry of Agriculture. In the future it may well be impossible to leave an Interprofession – we needed to make our protest before we were completely manacled to the Interprofession. There was a lot of anger from the appellations at Interloire's AGM in November last year. That is still the case in many appellations – it is just that protests take a different form in each appellation.

Following my conversation with François Audebert, I phoned Jean-Max Manceau, président du Syndicat des vins de Chinon. He confirmed that, like Bourgueil, Chinon has some of the same concerns with Interloire's approach.

Jean-Max Manceau (Domaine de Noire, Chinon) in his vines with 2009 juice: 8.10.09

Jean-Max Manceau: We need to see the appellations being given greater value and greater emphasis under the umbrella image of La Loire. We are observing and want to continue to talk. We are not ready to leave Interloire.

On Friday 11th December I spoke to Jacques Couly (Couly-Dutheil) and Jean-Martin Dutour. (Baudry-Dutour). They were both critical of Bourgueil's decision to vote for independence. Couly-Dutheil and Baudry-Dutour have a foot in both camps: on the one hand as the two leading Chinon producers but on the other as négociants.

Jacques Couly

Jacques Couly: The vote for independence does not take account of reality. An appellation like Bourgueil does not have the resources to go it alone*. We all have to make a sacrifice to promote Vin de Loire. In the current economic recession it is all the more important that we all work together. It is hard for all of us – I met Guigal in Paris the other day and was told that sales in the UK are a "catastrophe".

Jean-Martin Dutour

Jean-Martin Dutour: Partir c'est une bétisse. We have to create a strong image for La Loire.

(* I understand that hiring an attaché de presse (press officer – presumably part-time would cost in the region of 20,000€.)

(NB: All of these conversations were in French. In translation it is possible that I may have changed unintentionally the nuance of what was said.)